Rafael Rodriguez-Cruz, a board member of the Rosenberg Foundation, an organization which gives financial and moral support to children whose parents are imprisoned for their progressive political beliefs, was in Havana recently to attend a meeting organized by the Cuban based International Committee for Justice and Freedom for the Five on the 16th July. After the meeting he spoke with Bernie Dwyer, Radio Havana Cuba about the reasons for his visit and his interest in the case of the five Cuban political prisoners incarcerated in the United States. He likens the treatment of the visiting rights of the five Cubans and their families as a way of torture and as a political tool to further repress, in this case, the Cuban Five.

[Bernie Dwyer]: What is the purpose of your visit to Havana?

[Rafael Rodriguez]: I am here at the request of the relatives of the five and particularly of René Gonzalez, concerning constitutional violations linked to the denial of visits for Ivette and for his wife, Olga Salanueva to travel with Ivette to see René.

[BD]: Why is this cruel situation continuing in spite of the violations and the many national and international regulations, rules and conventions that are being broken?

[RR]: What is happening here is something similar to what happens in cases like the Ethel and Julius Rosenberg case in the respect that family relationships and visits and access to family members by prisoners is used as a way of torture and as a political tool to further repress, in this case, the Cuban Five.

[BD]: Is this a usual practice used by US prisoner authorities?

[RR]: The Rosenberg Foundation has dealt with cases that are similar. For instance, recently we had a case of a Vieques activist who was incarcerated by the federal system in the US and we haven’t been able, in the last two or three weeks, to find out exactly where that person is located. Often when we try to assist children to see their relatives, we face situations where they are suddenly moved to another correctional facility and that affects the ability of the relatives to see the parent.

Historically, in cases of people who are prisoners because of their progressive political beliefs, visitation and access with their families are further used in a way to further affect the person who is incarcerated.

[BD]: It’s obvious that, aside from all culpability, all prisoners have rights and international studies have shown that when prisoners have family visits, they are better behaved prisoners and are not so melancholic. Do you think that the US authorities are going against their own regulations order to keep on that psychological pressure?

[RR]: I believe so. I believe it has to do with all the irrational policy of the United States towards Cuba. I have to mention that when we talk about violations of their rights, we are being very specific. First of all even though they are prisoners they do have a 1st amendment right to intimate association and even though the Supreme Court has said in the past, in the context of correctional facilities, those rights can be limited; they cannot be limited beyond a certain point.

They cannot become permanent, they cannot be irrational; they cannot be arbitrary and what we have here is that there is no basis for such an extreme situation where Adriana has not been allowed to go and see Gerardo and specifically Ivette has not been provided with an appropriate way of going to see her father: in this case it would be to travel to the United States with Olga Salanueva, her mother.

[BD]: The US prison system is not exactly renowned for is fairness and justice. I’m not saying that the constitutional legal system is unfair but it is often used in an improper way. So why are we expecting better treatment for the five? Is because we see them as political prisoners or are they being treated in a worse fashion than other prisoners?

[RR]: I think that is precisely the case. When you look at a situation where there has been a restriction of prisoner rights, it is usually where the past behavior and the history of the case justify that. For instance, a co-conspirator or someone who has in the past been indicted of certain crimes is not allowed to see someone who is also in jail because of drugs.

In this case, for instance, we have two persons, Olga and Adriana that have never been charged with any crime. Adriana has never been implicated in any way or fashion in the alleged crime committed by Gerardo, yet, she is not allowed to see him. In the case of Olga Salanueva, it is precisely the same situation. Olga was in the United States at some point and had access to see René. Suddenly in a completely arbitrary and unnecessary fashion, she is not allowed to see René. We have to balance here a constitutional right she has with the needs of the correctional system. In this case, there is no need for such an extreme situation. And we believe that in fact in the case of René and Gerardo, it amounts to almost a second sentence in addition to the incarceration, in obvious violation of the 8th amendment: prohibition of cruel and unusual punishment.

[BD]: There are many cases where children are not able to see their fathers due to the circumstances of his imprisonment. What is different about this case?

[RR]: This is not an apparent father who in any way poses a danger to the child. The State in many cases has gone as far as determining the parental rights of someone but those are instances where the child would be in some way in danger by interacting with the parent in any way. There is no evidence whatsoever in this case.

In fact our position is that Ivette has a constitutional right to intimate association with her father unless it is proven that it would be detrimental to her in any way. And that is not the case. On the contrary, the testimony and information and the studies that we have from psychologists in the United States, Cuba and around the world, support precisely that children need to develop that bond with the parent and that it would be beneficial for her psychological development.

[BD]: What would you say to the people that point out that in fact the US Immigration authorities are not stopping Ivette from going to the US to visit her father with her grandmother or her big sister?. The prohibition is on Olga, not on Ivette

[RR]: There are actually cases of the Supreme Court that point to the fact it is reasonable to expect that if a child goes to visit a relative in the correctional facility, that child would be accompanied by the other psychological parent so that the child will feel protected and will feel that he/she is not in any danger.

My position is, and our position is, that to condition Ivette’s visit to René to travel unaccompanied by Olga is actually a violation of her constitutional right in the sense that the State has no right to put conditions that are extreme in order for an American citizen, in this case, Ivette, to exercise her first amendment rights.

[BD]: The Rosenberg Foundation is taking a very active role in this case. What is it particularly about the case that fulfils the requirements to take an interest in the case?

[RR]: I’m an attorney and I have been engaged by René and Olga to deal with this situation. The Rosenberg Foundation directly supports the humanitarian campaign for the visits. We are going to do everything possible to inform the American public about this situation and to assist Ivette to see her father.

We are really concerned about this case because it points to a pattern in the US in many cases when children become instruments of manipulating and further torturing the parents. We can go back to the case of Sacco and Vanzetti and the case of the Rosenbergs’ children themselves and many other cases throughout the years, the Foundation have been involved, and more recently in the case of the Vieques prisoners, the people who had been incarcerated for their connection to the struggle in Vieques.

[BD]: Do you feel hopeful about the case?

[RR]: I think that in the last few months, there has been an opening of a certain window in the United States for a discussion on the human rights of the Cuban five, particularly as a result of the scandal of the torture in Iraq and more recently with the film Fahrenheit 9/11 by Michel Moore. I am not saying that it is gong to be solved tomorrow but more and more the American public is becoming concerned about issues involving the US government in the international abuse of human rights.